upangler.com

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: Lots of empty releases?  (Read 1891 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

larboc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Lots of empty releases?
« on: July 10, 2017, 01:16:43 PM »

The past few trips out we've been getting a ton of releases on high lines (60-90ft down). Assuming it's salmon but we haven't had a single salmon on, just lake trout. Never had issues like this. We've set the releases as tight as they will go and we end up drowning all the lake trout we hook up and still getting releases with no fish. Thought maybe it could be some submerged junk floating but never had a stick or anything on the line. No problems at all with the lines on the bottom, just fish.

Thoughts? Anyone else experience this?
Logged
11' starcraft "NoKanDoo"
16' Invader tri-hull "Spirit of Dan Seavey"
22' Cruisers Mackinac, "The Green Machine"
Homeport-Painesdale, MI

Capt. John

  • New Guy
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 07:16:05 PM »

What kind of hook file do you have?
Logged
John King
Home Port: Manistee, MI
Boat: 22' 1979 Sea Ray

larboc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 08:33:10 AM »

Dull hooks were the first thing we thought of so we put brand new eagle claw lazer sharp on every spoon, they were very sharp. I've got a hone, but it was quicker to just put brand new "known good" hooks on.
Logged
11' starcraft "NoKanDoo"
16' Invader tri-hull "Spirit of Dan Seavey"
22' Cruisers Mackinac, "The Green Machine"
Homeport-Painesdale, MI

Dire Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1016
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 07:19:12 AM »

Do you have any lures rigged with Siwash hooks?  If yes, give these a go. This is a little early in the year for chinook mouth's to get "bonier" due to kype development (males), but I have not seen many 2YO getting caught, so this is my guess.  Add-in that, since these drive-by hits are on high lines, the in-line boards aren't doing you any favors in terms of a solid anchor point to drive a set of treble hooks home. Are you fishing mono. leaders?  How long, if yes?
Logged

larboc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 08:30:07 AM »

Do you have any lures rigged with Siwash hooks?  If yes, give these a go. This is a little early in the year for chinook mouth's to get "bonier" due to kype development (males), but I have not seen many 2YO getting caught, so this is my guess.  Add-in that, since these drive-by hits are on high lines, the in-line boards aren't doing you any favors in terms of a solid anchor point to drive a set of treble hooks home. Are you fishing mono. leaders?  How long, if yes?

Sorry, when I said highlines I was referring to downriggers set half way down. No boards. Whatever is doing the drive by's is pulling on the bait hard enough to pull it straight out of the release, I'd guess it takes 10+ lbs of force to do what they are doing the way we have the releases set. 4lb lake trout won't release it.
I will try Siwash hooks. I've heard of a couple guys doing well on chinook near by but I haven't seen one. I wonder if that's what's going on.
Logged
11' starcraft "NoKanDoo"
16' Invader tri-hull "Spirit of Dan Seavey"
22' Cruisers Mackinac, "The Green Machine"
Homeport-Painesdale, MI

Blacklab

  • New Guy
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 09:34:13 AM »

In all honesty I have seen this happen multiple times, and it was due to king hitting but not well enough to get hooked where they bite the bait in a funky way that causes a release to pop with no fish. Sometimes the fish smack it and the lag time with slack allows for just enough elasticity to cater to the fish trying to get off. It's frustrating, that's for sure. I'm surprised that nobody else brought this up because I have seen and heard it from a lot of the diehard salmon guys on here. Keep your chin up, it just happens.
Logged

Chesapeake

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 12:09:07 PM »

Second for the single hooks. I have a pretty high hook to land ratio with them.
Logged

Blacklab

  • New Guy
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 12:20:29 PM »

I agree with Chesapeake on that one!  :thmb:
Logged

Capt. John

  • New Guy
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 07:33:18 AM »

Been at this for a very long time, wrote an article that might help located at:

http://www.michigansportsman.com/Tips_n_Trix/Science_of_Rigger_Releases.htm

Think you'll enjoy the hook test where I use a piece of steak gristle to measure perpetration in pounds of pull force.
Takes a 4.2 to penetrate the gristle that should be about the same force needed to sink a hook into a 20 and over King.

49 years on the Great Lakes and 20 years in the charter business teaches you losing
fish, or at least keep hook-up ratios at 80% is a must.

If your eagle claw hooks have the turned in barb towards the treble eyelet, it's not working
like a grapple hook the fish can latch onto. Several model of eagle claw hooks have what I call,
a turned in beak, where the barb is turned to to point at the hook's eye.
Logged
John King
Home Port: Manistee, MI
Boat: 22' 1979 Sea Ray

Dire Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1016
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 07:27:05 AM »

Gamaktsu chemically sharpened trebles or siwash single hooks go on every Moonshine spoon I buy.
Logged

LoonASea

  • New Guy
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 09:18:31 AM »

I don't own a spoon with a treble hook on it ,,, It comes out of the package and gets a VMC siwash hook before going in the boat,, I still get drive bys but after watching some underwater water wolf video some fish TBone the spoon and hooks never get in the fish's mouth ,,, Siwash hooks make for easier storage and saves on hooks in the net also
Logged

Redrover

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 595
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Lots of empty releases?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 02:35:11 PM »

Back in the 90s a young Mark Martin came to Ishpeming and did a talk on walleyes.

One of the great tips he gave that evening was to take a jig head and bend the hook  up slighly (1/16 to 1/8 inch) to catch those short hitters.

I tried it and it worked great. When I see him someday I am going to thank him.

think of it as a hook held in a vice with teh barb end facing up and you have to slap it without being hooked.
Would you rather slap a standard hook  with the tip facing the viceor the inward pointing eagle claw or the just slightly bent up  (1/16 to 1/8 inch) hook ready to catch your hand as it comes down?

Maybe try a single hook bent up slightly on a spoon for those candy stealers and you may just catch your shoplifter...
Logged